Keen

Hi, advise me please.
I have a new 7/8 Hart Steel blade and its not as sharp as i would like. It just about passes the HHT test but you have to thrust the hair at the blade.
It shaves quite nice since i gave it 50 laps on the Cro spray but i want it a bit more keener.
Should i give it a go on my 16k shapton or maybe start lower on the 8k?
I'm still learning to hone and i dont wanna mess up a new beautiful blade.
I could even run it on my 0.5 diamond spray?
Also last question. Whats your opinions on spray vs paste?
Thanks for being so much like yourselves :)

As I am sure other members will agree, the hht is not always accurate. To work correctly it would have to be calibrated with your hair on a known good razor since everyone has different hair. If it shaves good, it is probably good....

I would try 5-7 passes only on the 16k Shapton glass, follow by some laps (7) on Crox and shave. If it improves then I would not go to the 8k. If it's not to satisfaction, I would give it another go on the 16k or go down on grit. That would be my approach. Double O

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Originally Posted by Chugach68

As I am sure other members will agree, the hht is not always accurate. To work correctly it would have to be calibrated with your hair on a known good razor since everyone has different hair. If it shaves good, it is probably good....

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I have a "Not a Replica" blade that is deadly sharp and smooth ,the HHT test is clearly different on that razor.Maybe each blade is an individual..

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Also last question. Whats your opinions on spray vs paste?
Thanks for being so much like yourselves :)

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For me spray is easier to apply to mediums like hardwool felt or any other felt type medium, the paste is good with balsa, linen or rough leather. I prefer hard wool felt for medium and buy sprays for that reason. However, my CrOx came on paste and has worked fine on rough leather. Double O

I agree with the above. I don't think you need to go to the 8K and it's always better to avoid doing too much as a matter of razor life extension principle. The nice thing about spray on felt is that you can improve an edge with a few laps in a way that does not take away the smoothing benefits of the stone you used on the blade before it. It is probably the most conservative way to use Crox. Remember that the 16K Shapton, even though it's 16K will cut very fast, as compared to other stones at that grit level, so be careful on how many laps you take on it. At this point in honing making sure your razor is perfectly flat on a perfectly flat stone and that your strokes are as even and light as possible, while true at any level of grit, is most important now.

After you are done with stones and pastes you need to do a very good stropping. In fact I would do about 100 laps before even going back to the hones just to see how it improves the edge.

A lot of guys find the 16k to be a bit harsh, if you go that route, be sure to do at least 10 laps on crox after. I would do 10 on the .50 diamond, that should give you the keeness your looking for. Also, Don't worry about the HHT so much, use the shave as the ultimate test.

Sprays and pastes work equally well for giving you that extra keeness. I like the .50 diamond spary on hard wool felt.
I also like the CBN 160k (spray) on Balsa. To me, it surprisingly keen and smooth.



Good Luck

I think i will first off try they 100 laps on the strop , see how that works because i've been giving it 20 on the cotton and then 40 on the leather.
The shave after that ill try the 10 on the felt 0.5 diamond.
The third shave ill try a few laps of the 16k followed by the Crox.
That should give me some good info.
I only shave once a week but since i've been honing ive upped my game to 2 shaves a week , so i can progress with my skillzzz :)

The shave test does not require a full shave. Most pro honers shave test several razors per shave. You could try all your experiments in just a few shaves.

Don't forget to strop 60 - 100 laps on a clean leather strop after each touch up. Have fun with your experiments.

Jonathan

Hi, i'm back...
I just honed 2 razors with the 1k/4k/8/16/ 0.5 Diamond and 100 laps on the strop.
They are both deadly sharp passing the HHT test with ease.
The problem is when i had the 16K on the go, i thought i'd try 10 laps with my hart steel 7/8 , so i gave it 10 with zero pressure then 10 on the diamond felt , then 100 on the leather and its now duller.
It wont pass any kinda HHT test and feels, to the thumb pad, blunter :(
Do you think i should try a full hone on it now? i wish i never touched it *cry cry*

Before you do a full honing, try 10 weigh of the blade strokes on the 8K and 10 on the 16K followed by 5-7 strokes on chromium oxide and then a full stropping. Remember that the Hart was probably honed with tape, so if you are not taping, that could be throwing you off some.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Before you do a full honing, try 10 weigh of the blade strokes on the 8K and 10 on the 16K followed by 5-7 strokes on chromium oxide and then a full stropping. Remember that the Hart was probably honed with tape, so if you are not taping, that could be throwing you off some.

Have fun.

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Thanks ill try that. I'm using tape.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Before you do a full honing, try 10 weigh of the blade strokes on the 8K and 10 on the 16K followed by 5-7 strokes on chromium oxide and then a full stropping. Remember that the Hart was probably honed with tape, so if you are not taping, that could be throwing you off some.

Have fun.

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Hi, i followed your instructions. The toe and heel ends of the blade pass the HHT with flying colours but the middle of the blade wont cut the hair..any thoughts?... thanks

How did it shave?

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Originally Posted by Lynn

How did it shave?

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I shaved earlier today, so i have to wait a few days for some decent stubble.. :/

I can get good, close shaves off a blade that doesn't pass the HHT, so you would do well to not get so caught up on it. I personally don't even use it. Shave with the razor a couple times, if you still find that there is too much tug after that, perhaps try another few strokes on the crox.

I personally do 5-7 strokes on my nani 12k and go from there, slowly doing a few more strokes every couple of shaves until it's perfect for me.

This is basically what you have to do, slowly tweak your edge until it feels good on your face and glides though your beard perfectly :tu

I wasnt happy with the blade and while waiting for my hair to grow i got bored and decided to do a full hone.
The 7/8 blade is bigger than the shapton stones, so i had to angle it. Also the blade wouldnt sit flat on the stone, it has a slight smile to it, if thats the correct terminolagy? Being a new blade i found this quite disturbing :(
Luckly i'd recently watched a Lynne video where he talks about rocking the blade whilst honing.
The end result is amazing. Its really sticky on the thumb pad test and hairs pop on it all the way along the edge.
I'm more relieved than anything because its a new blad and im new to honing, but coming along in leaps n bounds.
I'll shave mid week. Looking forward to it :)

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Originally Posted by kwlfca

I can get good, close shaves off a blade that doesn't pass the HHT, so you would do well to not get so caught up on it. I personally don't even use it. Shave with the razor a couple times, if you still find that there is too much tug after that, perhaps try another few strokes on the crox.

I personally do 5-7 strokes on my nani 12k and go from there, slowly doing a few more strokes every couple of shaves until it's perfect for me.

This is basically what you have to do, slowly tweak your edge until it feels good on your face and glides though your beard perfectly :tu

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I will try that..thx

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Hi, i followed your instructions. The toe and heel ends of the blade pass the HHT with flying colours but the middle of the blade wont cut the hair..any thoughts?... thanks

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So far it sounds like you have a blade with a frown. Not sure but the initial description gave that indication.

I also would have gone back to the 8k but if there is a frown in the blade edge, I would go back to at least the 3k until the center of the blade cuts hair. Hold the blade vertically on a flat surface to see if there is light shining between the point and the heel. If this is the case, there is a frown in existence.

Get rid of the frowned edge and the shave will improve'

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Originally Posted by mrsell63

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So far it sounds like you have a blade with a frown. Not sure but the initial description gave that indication.

I also would have gone back to the 8k but if there is a frown in the blade edge, I would go back to at least the 3k until the center of the blade cuts hair. Hold the blade vertically on a flat surface to see if there is light shining between the point and the heel. If this is the case, there is a frown in existence.

Get rid of the frowned edge and the shave will improve'

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I think I'm gonna email hart steel and ask for a replacement..it's near enough new..

Hart finishes their razors on Eschers and then strops them before sending them out, although I have heard that this isn't always the case (mistakes happen I suppose). I remember reading about someone who had to hone his Hart himself and they sent him a $20 visa card or something for his trouble(IIRC). Let us know how it goes and what they say. Keep in mind that if you put the blade down on it's edge to check for a frown, you'll kill whatever edge you have....if that's a necessary evil or not is your call. Didn't you say that it shaved "quite nice" in your initial post? Hope you didn't just get caught up on the HHT and do all of this work unnecessarily.

Have you considered just doing a one or two pass shave (without any against the grain) so that you can shave more often (assuming that you don't already do)? Just a thought :p

How about some pictures?

I’m confused, you said the edge had a slight smile, now it has a frown.

How many razors have you honed? How long have you been Straight Razor shaving? What is the condition of your Leather strop? What brand are your other stones?

Checking for a frown will not dull your edge.

My experience with new honers and new razors, the problem is rarely the razor. You may want to slow down and look at your equipment, experience and technique before labeling the razor defective and ask for a replacement.

Photos please, so we are not advising in the dark.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

How about some pictures?

I’m confused, you said the edge had a slight smile, now it has a frown.

How many razors have you honed? How long have you been Straight Razor shaving? What is the condition of your Leather strop? What brand are your other stones?

Checking for a frown will not dull your edge.

My experience with new honers and new razors, the problem is rarely the razor. You may want to slow down and look at your equipment, experience and technique before labeling the razor defective and ask for a replacement.

Photos please, so we are not advising in the dark.

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How will placing the blade down on it's edge not kill it?

It depends on pressure and what you put it on. You can put a cardboard or plastic straight edge against a razor lying flat on a table without damaging or even touching the edge.

You can also hold the edge against any metal or flat stone without doing any damage to the edge.

Yes the edge is fragile, but not that fragile or you would never be able to strop or shave it.

I feel like a total muppet :/
I've spent all day thinking about my bent razor at work.
I decided to write to hart but before i did i'd double check the frown... and its totaly gone. The blade sits flat on the stones.
I can only think that the 1k shapton had a hump in it, which gave me a falce frown or maybe the electrical tape gave it a frown?
I did some lapping on the 1k last night to try and get some spots off it and must have flattened it out?
Either that or im mental :)
Some of my stones still have what i think is metal fragments in them and the DMT plate isnt getting them out.
I've had 3 hart razors so far.
I have a Not a Replica, which is the sharpest blade ive ever come across. I had a BCX handled blade which was blunt and got returned and had it replaced with the Hart mirrored 7/8 pointed tip. The Not a Replica and BCX , although made by Hart Steel for Baxters, had a number of artisans work on each blade , hence i had a blunt one.

So you have 3 new razors, 2 of which you have sent back and had replaced because, you felt they were defective? And now you want to return the third?

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

So you have 3 new razors, 2 of which you have sent back and had replaced because, you felt they were defective? And now you want to return the third?

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Umm No...
They sold me a BCX 6/8 whch was blunt and after they sharpened it , it was lost in the post,they had no more in stock so i took a 7/8 instead.

Honestly, your frustration is exactly the reason that you shouldn't learn to hone while learning to shave and strop with a straight, at least not with the razors you shave with.

Take some of Glen's advice, and learn to walk away from the stones. If you feel like your going back and forth like this, you're not doing any good to the steel or your learning experience.

Stop doing all of these tests, stop looking at the blade, strop doing things on your hones and worrying that something's wrong.
Strop your blade and focus on your stropping technique. I mean really focus. Make sure that you're getting a nice even stroke, back and forth, listening and feeling. Make sure you haven't got yourself into any bad stropping technique. Don't do anything else to your blade until you shave next.

Shave, and tell us how it feels on your face.

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Originally Posted by kwlfca

Honestly, your frustration is exactly the reason that you shouldn't learn to hone while learning to shave and strop with a straight, at least not with the razors you shave with.

Take some of Glen's advice, and learn to walk away from the stones. If you feel like your going back and forth like this, you're not doing any good to the steel or your learning experience.

Stop doing all of these tests, stop looking at the blade, strop doing things on your hones and worrying that something's wrong.
Strop your blade and focus on your stropping technique. I mean really focus. Make sure that you're getting a nice even stroke, back and forth, listening and feeling. Make sure you haven't got yourself into any bad stropping technique. Don't do anything else to your blade until you shave next.

Shave, and tell us how it feels on your face.

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I was straight razor shaving for around 6 months before i decided to buy hones. My stropping is fine.As with most interests i have, there is a learning curve, then eventually i excell and become above average :)

I am not trying to be rude, but a Hart razor seems to me to be a slightly expensive razor to learn honing with. I do wish you the best of luck, I have truly enjoyed every Hart that I have ever honed and/or shaved with.

I've been learning to hone with a dovo that I don't like and my brothers dovo, it took a big decision to try with the hart steel razor and I'm glad I did, the bevel came out perfect and the hairs are pinging of it,I will shave with it tonight,

So, how are things in Lake Wobegon?

Good Luck to you.

Best of luck. Let us know how it shaved!

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

So, how are things in Lake Wobegon?

Good Luck to you.

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ay?...............

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Originally Posted by Attila

Best of luck. Let us know how it shaved!

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I just shaved with my Hart Steel and i am gobsmacked :)
Its perfect. That is my greatest honing achievement.
I knew it would be good because of the hairs pinging off it but i didnt expect it to be this good.
Its mega sharp and not harsh at all.
Going ATG on my top lip lets me know how smooth and sharp a razor really is and this one is excellent.
I'm tempted to give it 3 laps on the 16k and 3 on the Crox , as some one mentioned. because im still learning and its all good info...
I just wish i had more razors to sharpen..

My advice would be a resounding...don't!! If it shaves that spectacularly now, don't be tempted to do more. More is not always better. You run the risk of making it worse.

What process did you use to make the edge this good?

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

So, how are things in Lake Wobegon?

Good Luck to you.

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is this an attept at humor.. sad ,,very sad....muppet :)

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Originally Posted by Attila

My advice would be a resounding...don't!! If it shaves that spectacularly now, don't be tempted to do more. More is not always better. You run the risk of making it worse.

What process did you use to make the edge this good?

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I did the Lynne method of :
1k 40 circles with pressure each side of the blade + 15 xstrokes
4k 40 circles with pressure both sides + 40 circles no pressure both sides + 15 x strokes
8k 15 to 20 x strokes no pressure
16k 10 xstrokes no pressure
crox spray on felt 10 strokes
Strop 40 laps on cotton then 100 laps on leather.
Shaptons are my stones
I think the previousley i was going wrong by doing too much pressure on the pressure strokes..
I will leave the blade alone then and wait for it to dull before even thinking of doing anything to it, apart from stroping

Thanks!

Also, good move deciding to leave well enough alone I say...